One lesson I took away from Microeconomics is that when you are presented with a tremendous amount of information you should take your time, absorb it, and then repackage it and then you will truly retain it. In that vein, I wanted to take a little time to let the flood of information from the Morris Manning event on Thursday October 4th sink in before I shared it with you.
What follows is the series of notes I took in the Morris, Manning & Martin/France Media event on What to Expect in 2013. It was basically 6 panels that related to all things CRE in the southeast. I think it’s a testament to MMM that most of the heavy-hitters in Atlanta CRE were either in attendance or actually on one of the panels.
As a note, my favorite panels were the first (State of the Market) and last (Development) panels. Be sure to pay special attention to Dr. Linneman’s comments in the first section. He was very good. Also, I put some disclaimer language at the bottom to delineate that none of these opinions have anything to do with MMM or France Media.
State of the Market: Where are we in the Cycle?
Dean Adler (CEO/Founder Lubert-Adler Group) – Biggest single risk in the CRE business is interest rate volatility. The thirst for yield has pushed yields down. Investments are being made because rates are cheap. Real estate still has the same amount of risks and obstacles as ever, but adding IR volatility to the equation is increasing risk. Always asking the question of what type of debt to place on property depending on disposition strategy. As loan sale market winds down, buyers now have the opportunity to buy properties that have had no investments dollars or cap ex for 4 years (zombie assets). Real estate is really back to local execution and returns are going to be made through execution. Why would you go to a closing dinner when you buy something? Operate it, sell it, then celebrate it. In retail, there are winners and losers today. Unlike the past, when A, B, and C centers will all survive. C now has huge risk. There are strong submarkets and “gateway” submarkets in every major metro in the country.
Larry Gellerstedt (CEO Cousins Properties) – Doesn’t think the election is having much of an effect on either investors or customers other than the fact that it feels like everyone is tapping the brakes. Very attractive market for sellers. Taking advantages of a good market so they can redeploy capital elsewhere. Our expertise should be picking assets and knowing how to operate those assets. We get caught up in proforma analysis and manipulating yield (“pencil whipping”). New development is going to be a much smaller part of the sector as a percentage and even apartments will cycle back down. Development opportunities are very geographically focused and urban mixed-use is very attractive. Generally sellers of suburban office and generally buyers of urban office. Urban play is more appealing and is driven by demographic trends. “Like fish, we will eat until we blow up.” So when the market comes back, products get hot, and everyone is pitching their deal, we will overbuild. It will happen again. “The economy is better than most people think it is. “
Mark Grinis (Head of RE North America E&Y) – As a service provider, only the new tax law is effecting their business from a governmental perspective. In isolation, our asset classes look like there is a mismatch for allocating capital. Distress has been redefined in this cycle. Europe is that part of the market that is suffering the most. Asia is having annual growth around 5 to 6%. us is still the engine of the global market place and will continue to be as such. You cannot have one particular strategy and say “I am going to do this one thing.”
Tom Roberts (Head RE Investments Cole) – Election will have very little effect on Cole’s business, but they are vulnerable to the Fed raising rates. Very conservative investment strategy and generally 45 to 50% LTV. Investors are looking for monthly dividends. If they can make 20% on appreciation of that, home run. One way to deal with downsizing tenants is cutting the box into a smaller box and renting the remainder. Always want to be aware of concentration risk, to Dean’s comments about stronger or gateway submarkets in every major metro.
Peter Linneman (Linneman Associates) – Real GDP, since 1970, has continued along the same trend line until 2008. GDP has not “bounced back” and is, in fact, falling farther behind. The between “where we should be” and “where we are” is $2.5 Trillion (US GDP is $15 Trillion). We are growing well below our long term historical growth rate.
Since the bottom of the recession, we have added 4.2 Million jobs, but we have lost 9 Million. Atlanta has been one of the slowest MSAa to recover, but has picked up speed over the last 6 months (more than any other major metro in the US).
Retail sales have recovered in spots. Manufacturing has recovered to a degree. US exports have never been higher in American history (in real terms). Corporate profits are at all time highs, but have dipped in the last quarter. Productivity growth is growing at about 20% of its normal growth rate. Commercial construction is at its all time lowest rate, since ’63, with most of it in Texas, NYC, and DC.
Monetary base: In the last 50 years, grew by $600 Billion. At QE1, it grew by $1 Trillion. QE2 it grew another $1 Trillion. QE3 is going to grow it by AT LEAST another $1 Trillion. “The Fed’s policy is destroying the economy is two ways: 1) No one has ever seen this investment landscape. 2) money is being created like never before.”
“When people are in a situation they have never seen before, they do less. When government is in a situation they have never seen before, they do more.”
“If you don’t need money, you can borrow a bunch of it at minuscule rates.”
Loan volume in CRE has slightly ticked up over the last quarter, all due to multifamily. You are going to have to depend on not much debt being available outside of multifamily. Don’t count on debt. Count on equity as your salvation.
Debt: Who is getting money and why?
Michael Hartman (Managing Director Reznick Capital Markets) – Moderator
Paige Hood (MD Prudential Mortgage) – Most mortgage companies are looking at stabilized acquisitions deals. Pru will look at ground up development, but there needs to be a proven demand for demand. Multifamily has proven demand and Pru will look at construction-perm debt on deal by deal basis. Focused on primary markets. Deals are be underwritten on untrended rents and expenses that are justifiable. Looking for 8% debt yield on MF.
Kurt Schwarz (Client Executive JPMorgan Chase) – At the very least, assets are beginning to trade. Top located assets are going to be rewarded on the valuation side with lenders. Credit decisions are being driven be equal part optimism and pessimism. When it come to recourse, guarantors need to show liquidity much more than simple net worth. Bankers do value the cross-sold products and want the treasury management
Matt Donnelly (SVP Cole RE) – Debt structure depends almost completely on investment strategy. Projects with lease up will go to local commercial banks and keep on floating debt to allow for flexibility in refinance. Larger, more leased properties will go to the LifeCos on a longer term. Investors are a fixed income play allocated to CRE. They look for stable investments and that means core, long-term investments.
Dave Gahagan (SVP Walker Dunlop) – All underwriting depends on property type. Agencies will go to 80% LTV governed by 1.25x DSCR. Somewhere around 3.75% for a 10-year rate. CMBS spreads have come in dramatically over the past 45 days and p[ricing is landing in the 4.5% range. LifeCos are a little more selective of properties, but will lend around 3.75% on floor rates. Level of due diligence done on sponsors is significantly higher than 5 years ago. Sponsor quality is high on everyone’s list. How are your other assets performing? Where will our sponsor be when the deal drops?
Joel Stephens (MD Regions) – Rally in CMBS has allowed almost all property types to obtain debt finance. MF is leading the pack and continues to go to agencies and LifeCos. Commercial properties in gateway cities and going more toward LifeCos. CMBS looks close to $50 Billion for this year. 20% of CMBS is hospitality and 33% is retail (down from 50% at peak). Retail continues to be a challenge for debt financing, but trophy and grocery-anchored can get debt placed.
Capital – Where is it being invested? What markets and asset classes?
Chris Marshall (MD JLL) – Moderator.
Neill Faucett (Principal Lubert-Adler) – Invest through local operating partners. If you can maximize current yield, you can take some pressure off the exit strategy. Will consider development, but it has to be very deal specific.
Atlanta lags behind its competitors in terms of jobs regained. Investment thesis shifts to discount to replacement cost.
Will McIntosh (Head of Research USAA RE) – Generally, investors are conservative capital looking for core and core-plus returns. Top markets are gateway markets, but they are looking at secondary markets (especially for industrial). Looking for growth in employment and population where it is available and while it isn’t abundant, there is some. Atlanta is still on the institutional radar, but investors need to find deals that make sense. People are focusing on economies that are focused on tech, energy, or medicine.
Tom Coakley (Director MetLife) – Met has roughly $7 Billion out in debt and almost all of it was in gateway markets. Invests for general account and doesn’t have interest in venturing out on risk spectrum. Atlanta is an opportunistic market.
Loretta Cockrum (CEO Foram Group) – Diversification is an absolute mandate for clients because all are from outside of the U.S. substantial amount of capital is coming from outside of the country and all of the gateway cities are experiencing that same trend. With no natural barriers, there is nothing to stop people from moving out. With 60 year investment horizons, you need to look at where the long term value will hold.
Chip Davidson (CEO Brookdale Group) – Had success in Dallas and in Texas because of the demand driver of the energy industry. Primary investment target is suburban office with identifiable demand drivers. Looking primarily for value-add assets. Investors have become considerably more cautious and more informed. Can’t count on cap rate compression in a couple years because the fed will adjust 10-year rates. Atlanta has become a big city with a great airport. Public schools is a big problem and will not attract corporate relocations. Tech and energy are the main demand drivers in larger markets and Atlanta is behind other markets in those games.
To Fund or Not to Fund? And What to do when you do.
Brad Lenox (Morris, Manning, & Martin) – Moderator
Thomas Boytinck (Founder Allegro Advisors) – 600 funds in the market right now. The big guys are taking maybe 80% of the available capital. When you start a fund, you are becoming an investment manager. You are going to be judged against Fidelity. Track record has become more and more of a focus. Take on a full time staff member whose sole responsibility is raising debt and equity capital.
Mit Shah (Principal Noble Investment Group) – There is nothing more frustrating than finding opportunities and then having to patch together capital. shifting from a deal by deal promote to a fund level promote, hasn’t made investors shy away in the past. Today, finding investors at the fund level has become much more of a challenge. Blackstone has become the index for the private CRE investor industry. There has become a hard hurdle you must hit in order to get to the preferred return.
Amachie Ackah (MP Argosy Capital) – There is capital for individual deals. You might be better off doing deal by deal raising right now because of the scarcity of fund-level capital. Most first time funds lose money.
Pike Aloian (Partner Almanac Realty Advisors) – Fund structure can provide speed. If the marketplace is dynamic, you may need speed to close. Raising capital deal by deal is very time consuming. Deal by deal is the best way to structure the deal currently. Trying to put together programmatic JV with institutional capital is another way to slice it but funding is not guaranteed. Limited partners are concerned with governance, reporting, and stability.
Michael Reiter (SVP American Realty Capital) – Capital is predominantly raised through the independent broker-dealer channels. Investors look at team, theme, and track record.
Real Estate Tax: Facing the Fiscal Cliff
Michael Frankel (Global Head RE Tax E&Y) – Moderator
Chuck Beaudrot (Partner Morris, Manning) – We have 3 types of federal income tax on our income. If we head into a higher tax environment, the ability to defer and transfer tax burden becomes paramount. Basing selling decisions on the tax benefits is a distorted economic activity.
Robert Rozen (Partner E&Y) – Powerpoint = The Fiscal Cliff. This year we have a deficit of $1.2 Trillion. Beware of Buch tax cuts that are going to cease in Jan 2013. Accelerated depreciation, carried interest, and 1031 exchanges will all be affected.
Ricky Novak (President Strategic 1031 XC Advisors) – People are beginning to plan for being forced to become active investors vs passive investors. Many clients are attempting to close this year due to the uncertainty of next year. They will be sitting on that liquidity until the dust settles and they can decide how to deploy it.
Development: What? Where? By Whom?
Mike McDonald (MD Eastdil Secured) – Moderator
Reid Freeman (President Regent Partners) -Underwrote to 9.8% constant on Sovereign. Had to allocate between office and condos. when construction started, LIBOR was at 5%. Currently developing hospitality project in Charleston. 4.5 acres with 200 unit apartment project and 2.3 acres on upper King Street. 304 room hotel with 30k sf retail/office. Leveraged IRR at 60% LTC is 24%. Partnered with Bay North from Boston.
Charlie Tickle (CEO Daniel Corp) – Daniel came to Atlanta about 10 years ago. Decided to partner with Selig and started to assemble large portfolio and decided Midtown was the market of choice. Multifamily was underwritten to 7.5% development constant. Hotel and office were underwritten separately and hotel underwrites better today. Reynolds Plantation is a long term investment. Probably going to add 100 rooms to Ritz Carlton. Potential for seniors housing and multifamily and golf amenity.
Chad Weaver (VP Camden) – Great time to be in the apartment business. Mid 2010, finally saw improving occupancy and rent and therefore began to start developing. Leasing has been around 50 units per month and rents have been 10% better than proforma. People are, perhaps, finally getting more comfortable that they are not going to be losing their jobs. So they are moving back into apartments.
Jay Jacobson (Director Wood Partners) – One of the largest MF developers in the country. Actively developing in 22 markets. Currently building 4,000 – 5,000 units. Best apartment development market in career. Will build to a 5 cap if they think they can sell to a 3 cap. Equity has been flooding to super core product in urban infill markets. Everyone seems to be getting filled up with MF deals. May hit 220k units in starts this year.
Jim Jacoby (CEO Jacoby Development) – Atlantic Station site worked for retail. Leased and sold office at sub-6 cap rate. Always looking for smart growth type projects. Ford Motor Plant and Porsche project are creating hundreds of jobs on the south side. Trying to bring a little gentrification to that area.
The information presented (above/below) is provided by The Atlanta Property Journal and was taken, in whole or in part, from the October 4, 2012 “What to Expect in 2013?” Commercial Real Estate Development and Finance Conference, sponsored by InterFace Conference Group and Morris, Manning & Martin, LLP (“MMM”). The above is general information and not intended to constitute legal advice. Any opinion expressed at the conference by a speaker is solely the opinion of the individual and may not reflect the opinion(s) of MMM, its individual attorneys, personnel or the opinions of MMM clients. It should not be distributed or repurposed without the approval of MMM by contacting firstname.lastname@example.org